5.2 ping - I have changed the usually suspects, what is left?

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

scruff

2003-08-31 14:10:10 UTC

I have a 99 Dakota with 5.2L with the characterist ping.

I have tried the following:
1. TSB wire reroute
2. Napa bras cap and rotor
3. 180° Thermostat
4. Autolite 3923 plugs
5. MSD superconductor wires

While all things added gave some performance improvements, I still
have ping.

What is next? I'm stumped...

Scruff

David

2003-08-31 14:21:10 UTC

Permalink

When did they go to the improved intake manifold gasket?
You might be overlooking the most common cause yet if yours has the old
style intake manifold gasket. Follow the procedure to check for vacuum in
the crankcase to confirm.

David

Post by scruff
I have a 99 Dakota with 5.2L with the characterist ping.
1. TSB wire reroute
2. Napa bras cap and rotor
3. 180° Thermostat
4. Autolite 3923 plugs
5. MSD superconductor wires
While all things added gave some performance improvements, I still
have ping.
What is next? I'm stumped...
Scruff

scruff

2003-08-31 14:50:47 UTC

Permalink

AFAIK there is no vacuum leak. I have removed the TB and looked
inside; NO signs of leakage (no oily looking places). I do not recall
if I followed the other procedure to check for the plenum vaccum leak.
Which I cannot quite recall right the all of the specifics on right
now checking for a vaccuum or blowing at a particual hose, someone
please fill in the details on that procedure for me again I will check
it again.

Post by David
When did they go to the improved intake manifold gasket?
You might be overlooking the most common cause yet if yours has the old
style intake manifold gasket. Follow the procedure to check for vacuum in
the crankcase to confirm.
David

David

2003-08-31 15:38:48 UTC

Permalink

I also did not notice if you had replaced the PCV valve. A bad one can
cause ping as well as bogged down acceleration problems depending on how it
failed, I recommend using only the MOPAR PCV valve, I have had lots of
problems with Autozone or Advance Auto ones.

Here is the text of the test procedure. You can get the whole bulletin (with
pictures) from buying the subscription at Alldatadiy ($25) or going to your
local dealer service.

NUMBER:
09-05-00

GROUP:
Engine

DATE:
Feb.25, 2000

MODELS:
1994 - 1999 (AB) Ram Van
1994 - 1999 (AN) Dakota
1994 - 1999 (BRIBE) Ram Truck
1998 - 1999 (DN) Durango
1994 - 1998 (ZJ) Grand Cherokee
1996 - 1998 (ZG) Grand Cherokee

THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 09-06-99, DATED SEP.10,
1999, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. THIS IS A COMPLETE REVISION
AND NO ASTERISKS HAVE BEEN USED TO HIGHLIGHT REVISIONS.

SUBJECT:
Spark Knock And Engine Oil Consumption Due To Intake Manifold Pan Gasket Oil
Leak

OVER VIEW:
This bulletin involves the replacement of the engine intake manifold plenum
pan gasket.

NOTE: THIS BULLETIN APPLIES TO VEHICLE EQUIPPED WITH A 3.9L, 5.2L. OR 5.9L
GASOLINE ENGINE.

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
An engine intake manifold plenum pan gasket oil leak may occur on some V-6
and V-8 style engines. The oil leak is internal to the engine so no external
oil leakage will be present. Two symptoms of this oil leak condition may be
present. The vehicle operator may experience an engine spark knock during
acceleration and/or an increase in the amount of engine oil consumed by the
engine.

DIAGNOSIS:
Make sure Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) 18-48-98 has been performed.

NOTE: IT IS IMPORTANT THAT THE COIL AND SPARK PLUG WIRES ARE ROUTED EXACTLY
AS SPECIFIED IN TSB 18-48-98 TO ACHIEVE THE MOST BENEFIT.

Inspect the Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) valve. Shake the PCV valve
to verify that the pintle inside of the PCV valve is free. Replace the PVC
if the pintle is not free.

If the intake manifold plenum pan gasket is leaking, an additional vacuum
source will be created inside of the engine at the location of the pan
gasket leakage. Engine combustion blow-by gases, oil vapor, and air from the
crankcase filter/breather may be drawn past the leaking pan gasket and into
the intake manifold. In most cases when this condition occurs, an engine at
idle will create the highest vacuum and lowest amount of engine blow-by.

1. Allow the engine to reach normal operating temperature.

2. Stop the engine.

3. Disconnect the breather hose from the air cleaner.

4. Attach a vacuum/pressure gauge to the end of the breather hose (Figure
1).

5. Disconnect the PCV valve hose from the intake manifold.

6. Seal off the intake manifold PCV valve hose port opening.

7. Seal off the open end of the PCV valve hose (Figure 2).

NOTE: DURING THIS DIAGNOSIS, IT WOULD BE NORMAL FOR THE ENGINE TO DEVELOP
PRESSURE WITHIN THE ENGINE CRANKCASE. THIS IS DUE TO THE NORMAL PROCESS OF
EXHAUST BLOW-BY GASES LEAKING PAST THE ENGINE PISTON RINGS AND ACCUMULATING
IN THE ENGINE CRANKCASE. DO NOT ALLOW MORE THAN 3 PSI (20.7 kpa) OF PRESSURE
TO BUILD WITHIN THE ENGINE WHEN PERFORMING THE FOLLOWING DIAGNOSTIC
PROCEDURE.

8. Start the warmed engine and observe the vacuum gauge.

9. Allow the engine to idle for approximately 30 seconds. Do not allow more
than 3 psi (20.7 kPa) of pressure to develop in the engine crankcase.

10. If the attached vacuum / pressure gauge does not indicate that a vacuum
is present in the engine crankcase, then the intake manifold plenum pan
gasket is good and no further internal engine vacuum leak diagnosis is
required.

11. If an internal vacuum leak is present then perform the Repair Procedure.

snip>>>>>

David

Post by scruff
AFAIK there is no vacuum leak. I have removed the TB and looked
inside; NO signs of leakage (no oily looking places). I do not recall
if I followed the other procedure to check for the plenum vaccum leak.
Which I cannot quite recall right the all of the specifics on right
now checking for a vaccuum or blowing at a particual hose, someone
please fill in the details on that procedure for me again I will check
it again.

nItpIk

2003-08-31 14:23:36 UTC

Permalink

High octane fuel?

scruff

2003-08-31 14:53:32 UTC

Permalink

Tried it, same ping; abolutely no difference between regular or
premium (which is puzzling as well)

Post by nItpIk
High octane fuel?

Mr. Rather B. Beachen

2003-08-31 15:21:53 UTC

Permalink

Assuming you bought the truck while still under warranty and assuming
you kept all the work orders, you should contact a lemon law lawyer
and go after Dodge. That is what I did with my 98 Ram (And after the
warranty expired) and Dodge bought it back and paid the lawyer fee
without even going to court.

I had done what you did and:
1) Dealer told me at the first complain to switch to higher octane
fuel. At 20,000 miles, I got a valve job (because of teh knocking and
pinging) and when I went to pick it up, the dealer told me that they
had found the cause for the knocking and pinging-that it was due to
the fact that I was using high octane fuel. I looked at the SA and
told him that in fact it was him/dodge that had told me to use the
higher octane fuel-he told me that he was just the messenger from
Dodge.

2) I had taken Dodge to arbitration Twice and lost.

If you don't want to get a lawyer (I can supply you the name of the
one that I used in California-he charged me zero-if it had gone to
court, he would have started charging me, but if we had won in court,
DOdge would have had to pay his fees), I suggest trying "Tufoil". I
tried other so called "snake oil" to try to get rid of the
problem'-Prolong, tribotech, Zmax-they did no good. I had used tufoil
in my vehicles before but had no put it in the dodge until 37,000
miles. Within 2,000 miles the problem was gone, but then I had already
received noticed that Dodge was buying the truck back.

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:10:10 GMT, scruff

Mr Rather B. Beachen to you
***@hotmail.com

ringo

2003-09-01 00:48:42 UTC

Permalink

Try getting rid of the excess carbon from the engine, and remember the 180'
thermostat is allowing more fuel to be burned which gives power but if
incompletely combusted leaves carbon.

Mr. Rather B. Beachen

2003-09-01 02:45:35 UTC

Permalink

The valve job I got did get rid of the carbon, but shortly thereafter,
the knocking and pinging came back.

Post by ringo
Try getting rid of the excess carbon from the engine, and remember the 180'
thermostat is allowing more fuel to be burned which gives power but if
incompletely combusted leaves carbon.

Mr Rather B. Beachen to you
***@hotmail.com

BDK

2003-09-01 06:44:14 UTC

Permalink

Post by Mr. Rather B. Beachen
The valve job I got did get rid of the carbon, but shortly thereafter,
the knocking and pinging came back.

Mr Rather B. Beachen to you

Like someone else said, have a tech make sure that the timing isn't
totalling more than 36-40 total. Also make sure TDC is really TDC, and
you aren't really setting the timing at 15 degrees of some other too
high amount. My truck broke a spring in the distributor, and if I hadn't
fixed it as soon as it happened, I would have had to replace the
pistons, as they were melting enough to put little black balls on the
plugs. If you see them, you have a serios problem.

Pull the plugs. Is one oily/sooty? The manifolds on SB Mopars are famous
for leaks. My 77 360 had this problem over and over again. Oil got
sucked into the intake and it would ping bad enough to immedately change
the gaskets. I finally solved it by getting some oringed gaskets and
using some horrible blue gasket cement on them and letting it sit for 12
hours before running it. For the rest of the time I had the truck, the
intake was one of the few places it didn't leak.

Good Luck

BDK

2003-09-01 13:51:38 UTC

Permalink

I had the same problem with mine, only it was in a 99 Ram. Had it to the
dealer 3 times, after they updated the computer and used all their funky
diagnostic tools to remedy the situation they finally gave me an answer to
my problem: It's normal and I should use a higher octane fuel! Blah, Blah,
Blah. Typical dealer answer when they can't fix something. All I did was
replaced the OEM spark plugs with platinum's and widened the gap about .005"
above OEM specs and I have not heard a ping since using regular not premium.
That was about two years ago.